What Witnesses Do
Why Tribulation Discussion is
Important
"My
brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; 3 Knowing this, that the trying of your
faith worketh patience.
4 But let patience
have her perfect work, that ye may be perfect and entire, wanting
nothing. 5 If any of you lack wisdom,
let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and
it shall be given him."
- James 1:2-5.
Most of you
know that I struggle with patience. And
even though the Lord has tested it many times (and I’m still failing, but
better at it), I can admit it is the one thing about my personality that will
get me into trouble every . . . single . . . time.
I have often
questioned whether I have the mentality to be a witness, or to do this over
social media on the internet. My mouth
gets the better of me sometimes, but if the Lord is still testing me, he has
not given up on me.
So now, let’s
talk about what happened today.
Secondary to my patience was something else that came out of this and I
wanted to share it with you. Because
many of you are undoubtedly dealing with the same thing but perhaps with
different topics.
There are two
things that are really convicting me to respond to. One of them is, there seems to be a
transplanting of white supremacy to the social media site “GAB”. And while I respect the founder’s desire to
give everyone a voice, I do believe that this “movement” if you want to call it
that, is an organized “controlled opposition”.
I hate what they preach, I hate what they stand for, and I hate their
message. It is wrong on so many levels.
At the same time,
it has also caused me to look at the way I talk about the Jews, which is
probably the only demographic I have strong issues with. I have to keep remembering that even though
both Jesus and Paul, and practically all the prophets admonish the Jews’ religion,
it is the MINDSET, not the people within that religion, that should be called
into question. It is the things they DO
to others because of that religion, that Jesus exposed. He also saved many of them OUT of it.
I will get
back to that another time. I bring it up
because it was during one of these responses that I engaged with someone I will
for now call a “friend”, we tangled over the whole “tribulation” issue: Pre,
post, mid. The whole exchange began with
the posting of the Obamas and “black and white” people and somehow segued into
who is going to heaven.
Where Deception Divides Truth
Whether
blacks or whites or any color will be identified in heaven (I was of the
understanding that it is a spiritual place, not a fleshly one) transitioned
into the subject of the tribulation.
I had written
about this extensively during the time of the “MichaelsGuardian” blog; because
the role of the “beast” and his system fit so conveniently into the
pre-tribulation teaching. I had
researched where that had started and why it had spread so through the
fundamentalist churches like Southern Baptist, Weslyan and Pentacostal
churches, among others.
Back in
December of 2021, the last blog entry I posted was entitled “OMICRON: The Great Counterfeiter”.
It was to be the last blog posted on “MichaelsGuardian.blogspot.com”
because Google shut it down permanently four days after it was posted. If you click on any of it’s former links, you
will reach a page that says “Blog has been removed.
Sorry, the blog at “michaelsguardian.blogspot.com” has been removed. The
address is not available for new blogs”.
The blog had
been shut down prior to that for about two weeks, in July of 2021. The offending subject that time was an
article titled “DIVOC: The Vacca-Doctrine”.
It too traversed the subject of COVID as a vehicle for overspreading
abomination, the Jews, sorcery via pharmakeia and vaccines. That one is also republished on another blog.
Because we
are so close, the subjects of “Pre-Trib Rapture”, the “Counterfeit Christ” and
any correlation between vaccines and the “overspreading of abomination” are
going to be met with cyber attacks, flaming, deletion of one’s online work or
worse.
Telling
someone who has been brought up all their life in a church that extolls the
hope of a pre-tribulation rapture that it is a false teaching is just asking
for argument. It’s not a hopeless
ministry, but it will be met with frustration.
So when this
opportunity to share presented itself, I was a little more prepared: Not because I knew more, but because I had
wrestled this beast many times in the past.
Our patience is tried for a reason.
So let me just get to it, and feel free to share these examples of
scripture in your own discussions and ministries.
Jesus Warns for Good Reason
One of the
first verses I present to people who assert that they believe a rapture comes
before the tribulation is Matthew 24:29, and I tell them read that, then
start at the beginning of that chapter and read the whole thing. Or I’ll give them Mark 13:24 and tell them the same thing. Those two verses is where Jesus definitively
describes the son of man coming AFTER the Tribulation.
Well this one
person and I went through all that. If
they are still not in agreement, I usually then send them to Matthew 24:30-31/Mark 13:26 and then 1 Thessalonians 4:16 to prove there is no “second
visitation” to “gather” people.
We began to
get a little heated and I went to bed. I
will call the poster “friend” and me “response”. I didn’t get the idea to include this
discussion as a topic until the next morning, when I awoke to this.
Friend: "Pre , mid, trib is mute.
God's elect will be spared from his
wrath"
I think he
was trying to say “moot” not “mute”; to which I responded:
Response:
"From his wrath, but not from the tribulation:
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1%20Thessalonians%203%3A4&version=KJV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation%202%3A10&version=KJV
He responded
back a few minutes later:
Friend: "Trib is God's wrath where
the angels opens the 7 seals of judgement.."
I don’t agree
with that, because it doesn’t say that.
I posted with another scripture reference from 2 Thessalonians 2:
Response:
"No, the tribulation is the testing of the saints. And it is the
first seven seals, which ironically are not opened until Revelation 6 (man).
And the wicked are revealed through their works (see 2 Thess. 2:3-8) after he who withholds is taken out
of the way. Revelation 2 mentions the church of Smyrna
suffering tribulation. Paul tells the elect they will suffer tribulation as
does Jesus. We all will suffer tribulation. The day of wrath is for the wicked
who refuse to accept Christ."
This usually
gets rebuffed by Pre-Trib adherents, but by this time you are firmly acquainted
with their refusal to accept Jesus’ warning “after the Tribulation” and to
parse it with church interpretations they have heard in some cases, all their
life. But I kept plugging away and
didn’t give up on him.
Response:
"God opens the seals (Jesus on his throne, the Lamb). But he's
not the one riding the horses causing the events. He releases the wicked to do
it. There is a purpose behind this. There are still "saints" that
have yet to recognize their purpose."
There was a
break here. I went to eat breakfast and
to give time for “friend” to look up the verses I had sent. He responded with the below, which I thought
was an excellent point. I had never seen
this used in explanation and I felt blessed that this should come to me. He said:
Friend: "for the purpose of
conversation....
Haven't you read where when the
judgments came down on Pharo that the Israelites never suffered the plagues."
Before I
over-thought on this as I sometimes do, this came from the Spirit through me, I
didn’t even have time to think about it.
Response:
"Yes, but they were still there. They were not taken up into
heaven, were they? Foreshadowing. Is all through the Bible. Did they still
suffer fear? Yes. They didn't know what was going to happen. Did they still go
through the wilderness and still disobey after their faith was tested and some
of them failed? Yes. This is what the Tribulation is for . . . the
strengthening of the saints, the elect. Even Jesus faith was tested. Are we
better than him?"
What I didn’t
get to point out to him and didn’t think about it until later, was that the
“plagues” are poured it in the last “sevens” . . . the seven vials are poured
out on the “day of wrath”. But it wasn’t
important to explain that and God gave him what he wanted me to tell him. I sent an addendum to reiterate why Jesus
tells us “after the tribulation”:
Response:
“Jesus and Paul warns us of these things because we will suffer them.
We are reminded that during these times we are not to lean unto our own
understanding. It is to strengthen us, even though we won't be destroyed by it.
Here:
Revelation 6:14-17 - "And
the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain
and island were moved out of their places."
"And
all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled
together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth
off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree" - Isaiah 34:4-8.
Especially 8. Day of wrath comes during the sixth seal and the
sixth vial
Fifth Trumpet in Revelation 9:4
"And
it was commanded them that they should not hurt the grass of the earth, neither
any green thing, neither any tree; but only those men which have not the
seal of God in their foreheads."
Those with
the seal, the elect are still there.
Revelation 10: the seventh angel that sounds is the
same in 1 Thessalonians 4:16. Also the same as in Daniel 12:1.
The seventh seal, trumpet and vial happen at the same time. Read those together, because the elect are
saved up out of this as this wrath commences.
"Be
sober, be vigilant; because your
adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may
devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast
in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your
brethren that are in the world.
10 But the God of all
grace, who hath called us unto his eternal glory by Christ Jesus, after that
ye have suffered a while, make you perfect, stablish, strengthen, settle
you." - 1 Peter 5:8-10
John 16:3 "...In
the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have
overcome the world."
Acts 14:22 "Confirming
the souls of the disciples, and exhorting them to continue in the faith, and
that we must through much tribulation enter into the kingdom of God."
Romans 5:3 "And
not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation
worketh patience;"
Romans 8:35 "Who
shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress,
or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?"
2 Corinthians 1:4 "Who
comforteth us in all our tribulation,
that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the
comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God."
1 Thessalonians 3:4 "For
verily, when we were with you, we told you before that we should suffer
tribulation; even as it came to pass, and ye know."
After all
that . . . after ALL that, my “friend” sends me this about an hour later:
Friend: "Well you can witness and
suffer trib ....me I'm out of hear."
So . . . was he
mad at me because I showed him in scripture something he didn’t want you to hear? What did they say about those who appease
“itching ears” in 2 Timothy 4:3?
I was going
to leave it there. I came back later to
post this, because I remembered being through this myself. My own church taught pre-trib rapture and congregations
eat that up. Remembering why Jesus said
what he said, I posted a one, last-ditch attempt to get him to see why this is
such an issue:
Response:
"It's in the scriptures. Why are you fighting the truth? My
church taught the pre-trib doctrine too. You know how hard it was for me to
break out of that? It's the same thing as the garden - "surely you will
not die" said the serpent. The Pre-trib rapture idea was constructed
specifically to deceive people that the FIRST appearance of a
"savior" would be Christ. This is why Jesus warns us about it in
Matthew 24 and Mark 13. Don't get mad at me, get mad at the devils advocate who
keeps teaching this to people. What better way for the devil to deceive
Christians then to convince them that the one who comes first is Jesus himself?
Jesus said "AFTER THE TRIBULATION", did he not? Be not deceived. So
you take it up with him.”
The response
I got back was not gracious. It’s not
just semantics as he suggested below. It
is a belief system that will walk people from one pen of bondage into another
by the same adversary.
Friend: "MUTE DUDE
THERE ARE PEOPLE THAT BELIEVE PRETRIB
AND MIDTRIB ......WHIP ......DOESNT MEAN ANYTHING. BELIEVE YOUR UNDERSTANDING
.....NOT MIND. ....IM SURE AS YOUR ARE....I KNOW THERE WILL BE A WHOLE LOT OF
PEOPLE SAVED THROUGH THE TRIB. WHEN EVER IT HAPPENS"
Then he sent
also:
Friend: "you just missed my point of
protection God had on his judgements. When the whole world is ingulfed in chaos
the only protection he can provide is PRETRIB. but hey you can believe what you
want."
No, I didn’t
miss it. Protection from danger and
facing danger in faith are two different things. The bible is FILLED with afflictions that the
prophets had to face down, against their own fears. We have a bunch of SAINTS under the altar –
the altar of offering in Revelation 6:9, “slain for the Word of God” asking
when they will be avenged. And they are
told in verse 11 to “wait a season” until the number
of them are complete who will die as they have, for the Word of God. This is when the 5th seal is opened that
John saw this, so . . . people who stand for the Word are killed, and
tortured. The apostles were tortured and
killed. Our reward is NOT in this
earth.
So I
responded to him in what I thought would be the last communication.
Response:
" I read the scripture, not the doctrine constructed by my
church to funnel interpretation of it. I'm not going to argue with you. Jesus
warned us we would suffer, be tested and tried. So you take it up with him. YOU
PRAY about it. I have scripture backing what I shared with you. Believe me, I
know how hard it is to break out of that conditioning my church taught me. This
is why the Holy Ghost teaches us all things. All churches have been
infiltrated. Now . . . I'M out of here. The rest is between you and Christ."
Instead of it
being the last, my “friend” sends this to divert the conversation. Even though it did not serve his argument on
the subject of tribulation; It deserved an answer. He said:
Friend: "Dude , many or I'd say all
theologians argue about pre-trib and mid-trib your not alone believe and go
your way. Teach about the salvation is about belief in Jesus record and not how
good you are to other people. Salvation......not trib."
I do not
understand where he was going with this and what it had to do with our
discussion. I thought he wanted a new
debate. The seed was planted. Even if he didn’t agree with it, maybe it
would help someone else reading who was on the fence about this subject. All I did was answer this:
Response: " I already do that. If
someone is in error are we not to counsel him too? Do we let people walk over
the abyss? This discussion alone tells me how necessary this subject is. I will
keep preaching what the Spirit convicts me to teach. Salvation is not a laid
back, entitlement. We fight for the Word and for the truth every single day. We
defend the doctrine of Christ as much as we reveal to people what it actually
is. Nobody understands what "Love" of Christ really is until they see
it in action. This is what witnesses do."
This is what
witnesses do. We are not only called to
share the Gospel. We are called to
defend it. We are called to reprove the
works of darkness and not to take part in them.
We are called
to pull a brother up out of error. We
are called to advocate for the saints and defend the testimony of Jesus Christ
AND what he had put out by the prophets in that book we carry to church. Because twisting of words and laws will,
have, and did occur.
What
believers understand about the tribulation may not be important to some, but it
is as important as any other event in the Bible: even more so, because of the
warning Jesus gave us about it. If there
was no danger of the deception concerning this event, he would not have warned
us about it. It IS important.
The other
thing that bothers me about this exchange is toward the end of it:
“Teach about the salvation is about
belief in Jesus record and not how good you are to other people.
Salvation......not trib…”
Belief in
Jesus’s record . . . aren’t Jesus’ warnings and counseling and teaching part of
his record? “Salvation not trib”? What is he afraid of?
I got a LOT
of friction when we were discussing this in certain Michael Jackson fan groups
after his death, when we were on this subject.
It is really unfair to call it friction, some of it was downright
hateful.
There is an
agenda with the adversary, to “fake” Jesus.
It’s in the scripture, and the evidence of this floods the prophecies of
Daniel, which Jesus himself warned us to “understand”.
We are so
close now, that this particular subject is going to be censored almost as
heavily as the pandemic topics.
Pay attention
to some of the Michael Jackson fan groups as well, because as they have so
eloquently warned me in the past, this is “ground zero” of their “cause”
MJ/TINIEmail
TINI symbolizes our cause, it's started our cause, it's
ground zero.
There are not many
blogs that covers Michael's murder and conspiracy behind it. A lot of people
look up to your blog. You can use your blog to inform....or misinform people.
You, lately, have been
bordering misinformation. This
undermines work done by others."
I found the
woman who wrote this to me on the IMDB.
I found a couple of others on there too, so they were role-playing
assets who started the whole “Michael Jackson Death Hoax Investigators”, and of
course, you can’t have a “resurrection” . . . Without an appearance of a
“death”.
A
“Tribulation” AFTER the appearance of the deceiver would not only fit nicely
into their “rapture” plans, it would also dash many hopes of Christians
everywhere if they are taught to believe they were “left behind” . . . making
them easy pickings for the adversary wearing the lamb’s clothing.
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